Four Great Things

Other than a sore arm, I had zero side effects after both Moderna shots (3/17 and 4/15) I’m also due with my third kid on 5/21 and had covid in mid January so ??‍♀️

Don’t worry! I read that clinical trials showed that people who didn’t experience side effects are still protected – everyone’s body just responds differently. More info here: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/04/27/990992425/you-dont-have-to-suffer-to-benefit-from-covid-vaccination-but-some-prefer-it

You’re not alone and in fact, you’re in the majority! Around 70% of people in the studies did not have side effects – it’s just that the 30% who did/do are very vocal about their experience. Some immune systems do their job quietly, others do it while making a lot to noise but thankfully both types do an excellent job protecting us after vaccination.

I didn’t have side effects. My husband had very light fatigue.

I would think no, but I’m very hesitant to recommend because everyone’s level is so different. I’m fairly sensitive (couldn’t watch I may destroy you), and found it so good and worthwhile. It is a comedy, it really is. And there aren’t any graphic sexual assault scenes, though they of course allude to things.

I found it triggering for me. It brought back some bad memories. But of course it’s so personal and I’m not sure whether it will be similar for you.
Wishing you the best for your healing journey Amy.

Yes, PYW will be triggering if articles about sexual harassment are triggering.

I read the synopsis with spoilers and several great reviews. I am sure it is as good a movie as everyone says and I admire it for its story, subject, and its style. I’m glad it was made. However, I won’t see it. The movie is successfully evocative of misogyny and violence against women. It’s goal is to make the audience think and feel uncomfortable. It ought to disturb most of us and it may trigger some of us. It goes without saying, but you don’t have to watch this film, even if it is good.

I am one voice, but for me it was definitely triggering. I thought I had overcome my sexual assault from more than fifteen years ago and had seen the trailer for this movie beforehand so I thought I knew what I was getting into. I watched it right after it was released so I hadn’t talked to any friends about it. I wish I had waited for the reviews and thinkpieces to start trickling out. The trailer makes it look like it will be more “revenge fantasy” satisfying than it was for me. And listen, to be fair, right after I finished watching the film, I was in awe. I was stunned and wasn’t quite sure why. At first I thought it was just that it had been “a really good film.” I didn’t have the language until a few days later for how I was feeling. That’s when I gradually spiraled into a month of PTSD episodes, which I do not think I have felt since Kavanaugh was confirmed. Fortunately I have a therapist so I saw her for some extra sessions and that helped. I have a great support system. But this movie blindsided me for sure. Again, I’m one voice. But for my own personal nervous system and its vulnerabilities, I wish I had read a comment like this before I had seen it. And for what it’s worth, none of my comment has to do with the beautiful acting and talent behind the lens :).
This probably has some spoilers, but the article I most identified with after seeing it was this one: https://slate.com/culture/2021/02/promising-young-woman-movie-review-carey-mulligan-ending.html.
I hope this is helpful. Sending you a lot of love and care <3.

I haven’t seen it yet, but I thought the discussion of it on the always excellent podcast Still Processing was really thoughtful and nuanced.

I agree with this assessment of Promising Young Woman. I watched it and thought it was powerful yet disturbing. But Cassie wasted her life and had it end too early, which is exactly what happened to Nina! Two women had to die for one to get posthumous justice? And if the system let the guys go free for rape, are we to assume now justice will prevail and the men will be convicted of murder? Suddenly righteousness will prevail? I also thought Nina would not have wanted Cassie to have wasted such intellectual potential, a chance at happiness with other friends, possibly romance, and break her parents’ heart by dedicating her entire life to misguided vengeance attempts. Ultimately I just thought it was frustrating.

I just read the review and I think it is off the mark. I felt like I had a counter argument for each point made.

The movie is equally funny, horrible, devastating, shocking and cathartic. Bug if I had to make one change, I would use a different song than, Toxic. Although it was a funny music choice, what was happening was too sad for that song. But the other music choices were amazing.

So in my opinion, the movie was very successful. It makes point after point after point in a way that no one except a character in a movie would have the desire or balls to do. It was an English Major’s dream.

Jaime, my interpretation was that the ending was not supposed to seem realistic or reflect reality in any way. Rather, it was more like a fantasy ending for the sheer pleasure of seeing justice finally served (in a way it so seldomly is in reality.)

Interesting to read the thread here! I meant my comment to be entirely earnest in offering one glimpse of the other perspective—not intending to align myself with either view. :) Like I said, a complex movie! But I do enjoy seeking out the gut check on these things no matter how I feel, as Joanna said she’s already done!

I think it’s so interesting that the majority of Gen X parents are raising Gen Z kids, and on social media I feel like it shows. I can feel the vibes of “Hey! We thought of that first! We romanticized our social lives using polaroids and disposable cameras, you just happen to be to be doing it more easily thanks to smart phones.”

I also think that millennials are more similar to boomers than we care to admit

Thank you for this, Ann! This is really helpful to know, and I’m sorry that you had such a negative experience. I hope that your husband is doing better <3

Thank you for sharing this important information, Ann. What an unfortunate and scary situation on so many levels. No good comes of information related to medical care being so heavily politicized. The medical professionals on the front lines must have seen the worst of it. Crazy. I hope your husband gets good care and continues to improve. Wishing you both comfort and an easy, safe recovery.

Wow, how awful for you and your husband. Like you, I am also pro-vaccine, but it is important for all side effects to be reported so that people know to be vigilant. Wishing him a speedy recovery.

I hope that your husband continues to improve. That sounds very scary. Do doctors think that if your husband had contracted Covid, his body would have reacted similarly? I’ve been curious about whether people’s reactions to the vaccine might mirror how their body would react to Covid. But, regardless, I’m happy that the NYT article was published, and that you had read it. We often have to be our own advocates, which can be quite frightening.

Thank you so much for sharing your husband’s experience, Ann! I hope that he’s doing much better.
I met with my immunologist yesterday and he feels that I’m at a high risk of adverse reaction and that none of the available options are safe for me, so I’ve been advised to keep waiting. I am so fortunate that I was already aware of my immunodeficiency and was able to discuss options with an expert, though I wish the news would do a better job of conveying both the importance of vaccination and the potential adverse reactions. While rare, they can be serious and the general population really should be made aware of how those side effects may manifest, so they can seek medical attention if necessary.
My mother-in-law yelled at me and told me I need to “get back to living life” but, for some of us, the best path towards normalcy is trusting our loved ones to get vaccinated while waiting for a better formula for our unique biochemistry. Apparently there are over 100 vaccines still in development, so it’s coming. There is hope.
Thanks to everyone who has been or has plans to be vaccinate–I appreciate you all so much and feel safer because of you!

Thanks all for the good wishes, everyone! He’s at the hospital for another round of bloodwork as I type. Fingers crossed things are trending upward. And yes this whole experience was certainly a lesson in being your own health advocate for sure.

And Becca, that’s a great question. They don’t know unfortunately! But ITP HAS been a symptom of COVID in rare instances, so it’s possible (same with blood clots and blood “thickening). They also don’t know if Moderna or J&J would have had the same effect on him (and why they’re asking him to hold off on another shot for now). The whole thing is still really new so there’s a lot that they don’t know!

Thank you for sharing, Ann!
I also have ITP, and also got the Pfizer vaccine. After the 1st dose, my platelet dropped from 55 to 41. But it came up to 48 before the 2nd dose, so I went ahead with it. After the 2nd dose, it went down to 24 – enough to make us scared but not enough to be admitted to the hospital… My doctor ordered daily CBC (platelet count blood test) last week and fortunately it slowly climbed back up, I was at 45, last checked. That was traumatizing for a needle phobe like me, but I’m sure it’s nothing compared to your husband’s experience. Wishing him a speedy recovery!

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Erin and Jenny! I read everyone’s replies to my husband too, who says this is a very nice community :)

Erin—sorry you’re getting pushback from your family! It’s hard to just “get on with it” when it comes to very valid fears about your health! We did talk to one doctor who wanted my husband to get the second shot “just to see what happens”—for science, basically. When it’s your own health though, you have to take the steps that feel comfortable for you. And I completely agree. We are also very much depending on those who can to be vaccinated!

Jenny—daily CBCs! Ouch!!! Glad to hear you’re back to near your baseline. His bloodwork wasn’t back up into normal, but stabilizing it seems around 100ish. And who knows—maybe that was his baseline before the shot! Ach, it’s crazy. A few weeks ago we didn’t know a THING about platelets & CBCs hah.

Ann, thank you so much for sharing this and the nyt article reference. My son has chronic ITP and I’ve been struggling with what decision to make when the vaccine is available for his age group. I have an appointment with his dr next week and look forward to hearing what she has to say. Great job on getting the info your husband needs and sharing with us.

I do get this concern. This has been a year where one has to pick which fear they can live with. For me the fear that took root was the potential heartbreak of family members dying sick, alone, and afraid in a hospital. Now my entire family has been vaccinated, including my 90 year old parents, my 19 year old son, and a spectrum of ages in between. Everybody is fine. We all felt strongly that we’d rather deal with the controlled and temporary side effects of a vaccine than play Russian roulette with the actual virus. Desperate times indeed. Wishing you peace and health and safety, whatever choice you make.

Aren’t the side effects surfacing are more or less the same side effects we’ve been warned about in clinical trials? With some exceptions of course (I don’t remember the impact to periods), but thats expected to a degree as it goes out into the wider population and is used in mass.

The pause of J&J based on blood clots (which…were significantly less than blood clots on current drugs like birth control) should prove that they take any adverse reactions seriously.

Simply saying following the money seems a bit lazy and borderline conspiracy theory here. There are multiple vaccines (of various types), across multiple companies and countries as well as multiple US administrations – there is not a single entity controlling this that has tricked everyone.

These vaccines are a miracle that will save lives and let us get a semblance of normalcy back – they should be celebrated.

I agree with Claire that this is very much a “pick your fear” situation: 1) the immediate or long-term effects of a new, very contagious, and still largely misunderstood virus, or 2) immediate or potential long-term effects of a new vaccine (albeit one based on years of research and proven technology)? I know what my choice is (was), but thinking of it this way helps me have empathy for those who choose differently. Also, for what it’s worth, I had zero side effects from either dose of the Pfizer vaccine.

I agree with Heather, Claire and Laura’s points. Also, since the vaccine stays in your body for such a short period of time I don’t expect long term side effects from the vaccine itself. Any long term side effects would be from your immune response, which would happen with exposure to COVID itself.

I also think, to Laura’s point about new technology, if that’s one of the main concerns then J&J is a great alternative. There’s just a lot of options out there which is great – people can pick the one that works best for them.

I understand the fear of the unknown, and as someone who is decidedly not a medical professional (although I have stellar googling abilities), I also had concerns about a vaccine that was so quickly produced. (My concerns were not political at all–I am NOT an anti-vaxxer, and have been following CDC guidelines about masking, etc., all along, but sometimes you just have to wonder.)

That said, I got the vaccine as soon as I could for two reasons:
1. The long term effects of actual covid that are cropping for many are scarier to me than potential side effects from the vaccine. Many people who have minor symptoms from covid are now discovering devastating long-term effects to their health. Here’s one (of many) articles on that: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/04/unlocking-the-mysteries-of-long-covid/618076/

2. As I said, I am not a medical professional, so beyond what I’ve read in various articles, I didn’t really “get” how the vaccine works (especially since mRNA vaccines are so new). However, one of my brothers is a medical doctor, my other brother has been a nurse for 15 years, and my boyfriend is almost finished with PA school. They are all people I trust completely, and who clearly know a lot more about vaccines and how the human body works than I do. They all got the vaccine and encouraged me to do the same. So I did. I get that the unknown can be scary, but just wanted to share my experience/thought process

Annette, thank you for being brave enough to share where you are! As other commenters have shared, everyone has a reason for what they choose.

Informed consent is required by law in this situation and each person has the right to be informed to their own satisfaction before opting in to this vaccine program.

Catch phrases like “follow the money” may seem “lazy” to some people, and to others, it’s an invitation to practice critical thinking and seek understanding of who exactly is making these products, what their track record is, who is responsible if something goes wrong, who makes financial profit in the short and long term, and how these realities affect public policy. No one has to learn about these things, but many people who are “hesitant” are asking these kinds of questions and until open and unbiased discourse is allowed and encouraged, many people will remain “hesitant.”

I totally get your fear. I feel like I’m in the gray area between taking COVID very seriously but also not wanting to be rushed into taking a new vaccine. There are very many valid fears about a new technology– such as potential autoimmune reactions in the short to long run. This isn’t to say bad things will DEFINITELY happen, but the risk should be acknowledged. No matter how many trials have happened, we don’t have the longitudinal time data yet, although that’s changing as each month passes. This isn’t even to mention the mostly untouched topic of viral resistance depending on how we roll out the vaccine. (It’s, from what I understand, similar to creating superbugs from misuse of antibiotics and antibacterials).

I have plenty of friends and family members that have taken the vaccine and I never told them not to, only shared my reservations when they asked if I was going to. For many, the risk of getting covid is higher–they’re elderly, they’re doctors, etc. I’ve had people ask me if I took the vaccine as it’s one of those small talk topics of the moment, and then admit that they were wary of it too. My friend’s endocrinologist actually told him to consider holding off.

I think the most important thing is to take people’s fears seriously, and not assume it’s selfish malice or ignorant stupidity. It’s not necessarily just a pro vaccine or microchip conspiracy dichotomy.

I’ve lost count of the times evolutionary biologists Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying talk about it, but if you want to know that your thoughts aren’t unique, you might wanna check out their podcast: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bret+weinstein+vaccine

I learned this quote from them: “I cannot give any scientist of any age better advice than this: the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.”-Sir Peter Madewar

I think one of the prevailing problems of our era is the fear of something we (assume) we disagree with, being true.

@ Annette – I do apologize for my use of the word lazy, that was in fact lazy of me to use instead of writing up something more nuanced and nicer. I had a gut reaction to the “follow the money” statement without any additional references or links and honestly haven’t found anything of concern with regards to financing – especially because so many different entities and countries are funding them and again, it varies widely. (The caveat on this is of course these companies are making profits, but they would do that with any new product and the layers of government approval should serve as a barrier to impede pure profit driven findings).

On the flip side – completely understand hesitancy about the vaccine itself and only meant to emphasize there are so many options that might fit your particular situation and/or concerns.

If its helpful – I had a friends mom who experienced the rare extremely adverse reaction to Moderna. Her tongue was swollen, vision blurred, and she had slurred speech. They are speculating she’s allergic to whatever component is in these that they called out in the early stages of vaccination, but essentially, she’s been told not to attempt another vaccination in the future.

I was heartened when my friend herself still went to get the vaccine and the rest of her family is as well. She does have doctors in her family so I’m sure this perspective helped, but in addition to this, I know she was motivated in part because in order for her mom to be safe, everyone around her needs to be immunized.

So again – apologizes for the tone and words of my response with regards to your “follow the money” statement.

I do hope you’re encouraged by all the (nicer than mine) comments on here confirming their own hesitations and how they’ve been able to get over them. And again by the fact that these vaccines are the results of so many different entities and even technologies so if one really doesn’t suit you, I hope you consider the others.

Annette, I too was a hard no on the vaccine initially – and I’m a physician. I needed solid data, which I got when the results of phase III clinical trials came out. I do not trust pharmaceutical companies (who often do a world of good) implicitly; I do trust the New England Journal and required expert peer review. I then felt safe enough to be vaccinated and received both doses of Pfizer with only a bit of fatigue (or is that my two kids?) and a very sore arm to speak of. I hope that with time and countless people vaccinated with side effect rates mirroring what was seen in trials, you will soon have the data you need and feel safe enough. Until then, keep masking and we will do the same until all kids can be vaccinated!

Hi Lisa! I’m curious where you live and why pregnant women won’t be vaccinated? Thanks xo

Hi Julia, I live in Germany. The commission (called “Stiko”) responsible for vaccines does not believe that the vaccine poses a risk to mother or child during pregnancy, but there is no data on the effects because pregnant women haven’t been part of the studies, so they don’t advice for it, either. They do, however, say that in special cases and after consulting with doctors, the vaccine may be given to pregnant women, especially if the belong to one of our three “priority groups” (depending on the risk of contracting Covid or having a severe case). As a result, it is not easy to get the shot even if you are willing, it depends on the doctor. Many doctors seem to wish that the recommendations were different. Other countries do not exclude women during pregnancy this way. Hope this helps :)

Hi Lisa,

Thanks for your reply. This does help to clarify things for me :) I was especially curious because here in Canada they are prioritizing pregnant women. I certainly have always appreciated German healthcare philosophies and am especially impressed at your perinatal care. Best wishes to you!

Julia

Oh no, poor you! The same thing happened to my mother. My husband and I are scheduled to have our second shots on the same day and I’m now wondering if we should try to stagger them so we don’t both end up sick at the same time, leaving the kids to fend for themselves…

So sorry to hear that, Angela. Tilly, I would definitely stagger your shots if you can. My husband slept for a day after his second dose, and my reaction was even more intense, starting with severe chills about 10 hours after administration, continuing with body aches and extreme fatigue for the 12 hours after that, and finally a period of about 18 hours where I could not do anything but sleep. We have a seven-year-old, and there is no way both of us could have been out of commission at once. We both had Moderna, BTW.

Wish you hadn’t told us the ending…

Hi Joy, just chiming into say that reasonable minds may differ! I’m a sexual assault survivor who has real life revenge fantasies. The truth of these fantasies is they only could ever become realities if I was comfortable dying to get revenge. I’ve always said that if I was ever diagnosed with a terminal Illness I would be going through my list of rapists castrating them as quickly as possible. I cannot do this now because I would inevitably die in the process! I cried real tears to see something I’ve thought so much about, what real revenge would look like, played out on screen—it didn’t feel like another dead woman—she was dead as soon as she decided to get revenge and she knew it.

The beginning of this comment should probably say spoiler alert -_-

LOVE it!

I didn’t get these symptoms after my Moderna vaccine, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I go through periods where I suffer sleep paralysis (usually when I’m sleep deprived — my worst times were postpartum and during college when I was partying a lot) and it is the absolute worse. I can’t say whether you should get the second vaccine or not — maybe ask your doctor or try and do some internet sleuthing on this at least? — but I just wanted to say I sympathize. Sleep paralysis is one of the most terrifying things I’ve ever experienced –sometimes I get so paralyzed I feel like I can’t breathe — do I know how you feel.

Friends who had bad side effects with the first dose had a previous case of Covid (or likely Covid) and then didn’t have as extreme side effects for the second dose. The first dose ended up acting as the “booster” bc of their previous infection. So maybe that will be your situation too.

Hi Sarah! I can totally relate! I just did that with my second dose, and had very mild to non-existent symptoms with my first. And yes, very VIVID dreams, didn’t even think that was related, more to being sick and dehydrated. If it makes you feel any better, my terrible symptoms were what I experienced March 24, 2020 for over a week. No period- thanks to an IUD.

Get the second shot! If you don’t I would worry that you went through all the hard part for only half immunity?

Obviously, anecdotal but I think the immune response is similar. My husband thinks he had a mild case of Covid at the end of Feb 2020 and gets his second shot tomorrow. I’ve had friends with asymptomatic responses far less than those with the common flu-like symptoms.

I had the Astra Zeneca and had the same side effects as you but it lasted 2 weeks.I also developed COVID arm,my arm swelled up and had a red rash at the injection site.That has finally disappeared.I’m really nervous about my second shot as I heard the side effects can be worse.No one can answer me on if I can can a different brand for my second shot.The side effects are still better then actually getting COVID.

I had this experience as well. The day after the first dose of moderna I had a 103 fever, sore arm, chills, fatigue – the works! I also started spotting and then full on bleeding despite only being 10 days into my cycle. Everything lasted for a day and then subsided gradually over the next day or two.

I previously had COVID in January – which caused my cycle to stop for a full three months – so I suspect that’s why I had such an intense reaction. I do wish that there was more discussion around side effects related to menstruation, because that was one I found the most disconcerting. Hopefully dose two will be comparably mild.

Karen – I’m not sure where you are (i the world I mean!) but in the UK you currently have to have the same vaccine for both doses. I’ve volunteered for an ongoing study to see whether mixing vaccines for the second dose is safe and efficacious but that’s still deep in investigation. If it helps you, I’ve heard that the AstraZeneca reactions are worse with the first dose. I had fever and a very sore arm but I have no hesitance in getting my second (scheduled for the end of May unless I’m on the trial) My husband had AZ too (no side effects whatsoever except for a bit of tiredness) and my Mum has had both doses of Pfizer with no reaction either time (except a little soreness at the vaccination site)

Ooo I also got the JNJ vaccine. Do you know if I can jump into this trial? Kidding but not at all kidding. LOAD ME UP with vaccines plz.

This is great to hear, Rachel! Thank you for sharing.

I had AZ last Saturday and felt ill for x2 says, better now, just mild stuff. In Australia, the second AZ dose is 21 days later.