Have a Lovely Weekend.

I was surprised by how strongly the feelings of “horror and amazement” struck me after reading E. Jean’s response to the question on salary transparency, so I took the weekend to reflect on this issue and my emotional response. When I came to share my thoughts just now, I feel so heartened and relieved to see many others in the CoJ community have already beaten me to do it.

Just to add my two cents – As a young professional woman of color (working in the traditional world of biotech), I’ve personally seen time and again how directly knowledge translates to empowerment. Inspired in large part by the BBC women’s story (highly recommend reading this New Yorker piece: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/07/23/how-the-bbc-women-are-working-toward-equal-pay), I started proactively mentoring a few junior female colleagues on self-advocacy. While I agree that one should proceed with thoughtfulness and caution when discussing salary ranges/expectations with colleagues (my personal tip is to only/initially have these kind of conversations with people who you truly trust, and vice versa. Also, one can have an incredibly productive conversation around this topic without necessarily sharing specific income levels), I have seen how valuable these conversations to individuals and to our collective goal of progressing gender/identity equality. Sure, one should do multi-pronged research and also consult websites like salary.com etc., but in my experience they have been wildly inaccurate (esp when taking into account regional differences) or too vast a range to translate into solid evidence during negotiations.

As a final anecdote, I was recently talking with one of my customers – a newly minted female neurosurgeon – who shared that she and her cohort of male neurosurgery fellows had been offered significantly different compensation packages, even though she was also significantly more qualified (more specialized fellowship experience, publications etc.). She discovered this differential due to an unplanned conversation with a trusted male colleague, who shared his compensation info. She was then able to point this out to the surprise and chagrin of her now employer and negotiate a fair compensation package for herself. Point of the story is that sometimes there are structural/historical inequities that need to be addressed, and we can all play a role in taking this step towards progress.

Ehhh sorry to burst bubbles here (and Man Repeller should know this!) but most men who walk the red carpet are wearing makeup. In fact there are a lot of makeup artists who specialize in male celebrities. So I would venture to guess most of those men in the slideshow have been primped just like the ladies.

100% agree with salary transparency & checking around to make sure you aren’t being taken. I like to read thefinancialdiet.com. It creates space for women to discuss finances & learn from each other!!

Sorry but I will not shed an ounce of sympathy on female celebrities who feel pressured to wear makeup. They are the epicenter of the photoshopped, airbrushed, surgically enhanced universe-and they make the rest of us feel inferior. If they are uncomfortable, they have options–starting with don’t wear it if they don’t like it.

About salaries, many larger companies will publish salary ranges for jobs, so you would know where you fall in the range. That being said, I worked for a non-profit that did not. I found out what a coworker made and it was substantially more than me. I went to HR with some points about why I should be making more and received a huge raise, though not to her level, but it was still a 33% raise, which is huge. However, that coworker never really trusted me again after having done that.

Pffft! I much prefer men without makeup. But calling that brave – celebrity or not, is a mighty stretch.

Here’s something I just discovered in my own field: the wage gap occurs because our starting salaries are based on past experience. And here’s the rub: the experience that matters is often the experience most available to young, childless, white men. That’s why women get paid less: they start at less because the metric is subtly stacked against them.

Help, CofJ community! How do your employers handle this experience loophole? Although I understand why experience should matter, how do we allow it to matter without discriminating against those who are historically barred–either overtly or subtly–from opportunities that count as “experience”?

I just wanted to chime in on the salaries. At many public universities, the salaries of professors have to be disclosed by law. So you can look up how much the other people in your department make (or your professor if you are going to school!). Now I am employed at a private college, and sometimes wish I had that information. My friend was a postdoctoc, and accidentally found that a male post doc in her department made twice as much as her!

The salary talk is so hard to broach and can cause huge rifts. I agree having a general idea of what other people in the company are earning is useful for determining what you should be asking for and working towards…

However!

My team recently had an uproar when two assistants chatted salary and found out one makes more than the other. The higher paid assistant has been at the company longer, had more experience when they joined the company and are achieving more, day to day, than the lower paid assistant. However, the lower paid assistant insisted that it was unfair that they not be paid the same.

The whole dynamic of the team has now shifted, morale is down and the lower paid assistant doesn’t understand that the differences in salary are to do with accomplishments and experience, rather than being a personal insult. No-one can bring the same qualities to a job and no two jobs are ever going to be the same either – bringing salary into it is an unreliable way to measure your value and success.

Michelle, I live in Las Vegas and winter is the only enjoyable time. The heat last from April-October, and I am so grateful when winter comes. I love crisp air, cozy fireplaces and blankets. The summer is so uncomfortable, winter 100%

I’m all for salary transparency—as long as you ask politely and maturely! I have a coworker who demands salary updates from our work friend group after employee reviews and it’s extremely off-putting. The way you ask matters just as much as (if not more than) what you’re asking about! That aside, having salary transparency with my college classmates was tremendously helpful when we were all applying for jobs (especially since we are in a small and often under-paying profession).

If talking about salary makes you unpopular with coworkers, that’s the wrong place to work!

Yes to the comment about winter! I have summer depression (also known as summer SAD) and suffer from insomnia, anxiety and just general low mood in the summer – I dread June-August every year. I find winter much easier to deal with. It’s a lonely condition to have (whilst most people recognise winter SAD as a thing, with summer SAD they tend to think you are being weird or ruining the mood) so it’s nice to see people who feel the same way!

The Ehtiopian restaurant looks like fun. My husband and I enjoy ethnic restaurants, but we don’t live in New York. There’s probably an Ethiopian one in our area, we just need to google it.

A joke:
“Which of the following is not an oxymoron?
-Accurate stereotype
-Working vacation
-Ethiopian food”

Eat dinner at Zeni, in San Jose, next time you’re in the Bay area! It’s our favorite. Phenomenal food. (And my family would love to join you if you do!!!)

(The joke is that Ethiopian food is the only “real” food.)

Living in warm Southern California, I so totally agree with Michelle! Any hint of cold air is a welcome, exciting change! (And all her other reasons I am totally in sync with also!).

I love your roundups!

On the salary question, I could not disagree with the advice more. Yes, it’s ok to ask. Do it tactfully. I would couch it in terms of asking for advice. And of course, back off if someone seems uncomfortable with the question. But like the other commenters here have said, please, women as a group, be more transparent about finances and encourage more transparency from those around you.

The social taboo on talking about money – or as E. Jean charmingly put it “making yourself completely disliked at your company” by just asking about salary information – was formed to uphold (male, white, cisgender, institutional, generational, etc.) privilege. Rich people talk about money all the time. That’s how they learn to preserve and grow it.

So yes, ask about salary information. Talk about money. You can’t break through barriers if you don’t know what they are.

high-five, Michelle! YAAAAAAAAAAASSSS! I love this comment. I grew up in very sunny (and hot) NorCal which I think kind of ruins a person for life, weather-wise, especially if you find yourself living in gray & rainy (and gorgeous! wonderful!) Portland, Oregon for the bulk of your adulthood. Last year I’d had enough. I was like: I gotta turn this frown upside down, NOW. So I bought candles, read that book about hygge, bought flowers, started a book club, pulled out all the cozy blankets & started making soup on the reg. Now, I love winter. I savor it. I’m no longer counting the days.

You absolutely should talk about salaries with your co-workers, especially if you are a woman! Lack of transparency only gives your employer power. And this perpetuates gender inequality with respect to pay. Also, it’s nice to have it out in the open. I worked in government for a long time and all of our salaries were published. It was a relief to be able to talk to work friends and know that they knew how much I made. When we had conversations about kids, moving or big life changes involving money, we were able to give each other better advice.

We’ve taken our son to Awash but he didn’t take too it. Last summer we tried Meskerem in the Manhattan and maybe he seemed to like it better. Maybe his tastebuds had matured. My husband and I had our first date at Meskerem almost 15 years ago and we both love Ethiopian food. Hoping my 6 year old has turned a corner and we can enjoy it more often.

My company publishes they “minimum/mid/maximum” salary for every job level/position. It’s a huge company so the range is enormous, but it gives you an idea of where you stand. For example, If you are getting consistently positive performance reviews but are on the lower end of the range, time to speak up! And it’s nice knowing your information is published by the company.

I’m actually quite happy I am wife material. And I found husband material. I lead a happy and productive life because I am also lots of other material too. ;) Like teaching, learning, feeling, giving, loving, knowing.
I truly would not want to be bleach or red dye #40 or burlap. Those materials do not make up a human anyway.