Have a Loving Weekend.

Used to do that in high school – when I lived in jeans!

Ah I love her!!!

That was utterly fabulous. Thanks for the smile.

Jo, can you please link to the post that Megan is talking about? Would love to read it! Thank you

This is not correct. Your references in a hiring situation are your former managers. When I am hiring someone, I need to know what they did in a work context, not how they perform on the weekend pick up soccer team. The people who are stating that they swapped out friends to lie, that’s not helping your cause to get hired. I specifically ask what role the reference had, something that is easily verifiable via LinkedIn, etc.

Also the misinformation that a former company can only verify dates of employment. Many only do this, but many also give more information, especially if someone was fired.

Sometimes applicants – like my teen daughter applying for her first job – don’t have former managers to use as references, so she’s listing teachers and coaches.

there’s a difference between personal and professional references, and the best ones overlap. if i’m coming from an employment situation where my direct supervisor was a nightmare, i’m 100% going to list someone from the company that i worked with and had a great relationship to. if i have a friend in the industry for which i’m applying, but haven’t worked with them previously, i’m going to put them as a reference because i know they can talk me up to hiring managers within that industry and know what they are talking about.

Yes, thank you for pointing that out; his track record is terribly poor.

Some of the questions that flit along the lines of: “work is a family – did they ‘fit in’ with your family and do you keep in touch?” aren’t good questions! Work should not be about buddies. It should not be about “bringing your whole self” or “we’re so similar we all stay in touch now!”

That’s a way of stating (and for many people this may be subconscious): I like to hire people that look like me and people *I* would be friends with.

Yeah, agreed on this. The Basecamp thing was pretty ugly, and it showed a real disregard for the employees’ needs and mental health. So I don’t trust the CEO asking questions like “If you could change something about them, what would it be?” Apparently he’d say something like “I’d like them to stop standing up for what they believe in.”

How arrogant does Jason Fried have to be to offer management advice to the public after a significant company melt down due to a lack of emotional IQ – from said management?!
Wow.
The level of ignore-ance and insensitivity that still exists in ivory towers, in 2021!, after all we’ve been through as an awakening society in the last decade, is disgraceful.

So glad people are speaking up so that this type of domineering behavior is called out. We can only hope that with a little public pressure Jason and others like him will be able to access empathy and course correct as soon as possible.

What colors does G reccomend?

Agreed. The one victim’s question of if it was ok to break a window to breathe devastated me. The horror of that day will live in our memories forever. I hope the survivors can find peace.

Well said!

Not just you! :)

Also, not critiquing the choice to include this in the links roundup, but JF’s post feels kind of hypocritical coming from a CEO who recently drove away a third of his employees. The Basecamp folks try so hard to be aspirational, but then it turns out they’re like… really bad leaders. Definitely not who I’m going to look for for advice in the future

(Context: https://www.platformer.news/p/-how-basecamp-blew-up)

I do this, and had someone actually call me for a reference for my twin sister and it was honestly really fun to give her the most glowing reference I possible could lol she got hired! She is as awesome as I said though so I wasn’t lying to them lol I told my current boyfriend too do this. He does software development. I told him I would tell anyone who asked that he is an expert programmer I would rate as A++. He subsequently decided not to put me down lol and I never got to use my amazing programming humor.

@Morgan also came here to say I winced when seeing the source was from Basecamp. They are not models of an inclusive culture and their handling and response to their terrible decision is baffling.

On references, I think they should only be used to gather advice on how to coach/develop a new hire rather than data points on your decision whether to hire someone. Too much bias, bad former managers, etc out there. Instead make sure you have a planned, structured, inclusive and consistent interview process to get what you need.

Good to know that people out there are providing bogus “professional” references. Tip: don’t do that on a fed job application. It’s illegal. It might also be illegal to do that when applying for a job in the private sector (fraud). Also, don’t get a degree from a degree mill. I hear that some companies have started filtering out applicants from degree mills, no exceptions.

Came here to suggest removing the JF post! He and DHH are not leaders I would like to be taking advice from, and I don’t like the idea of CoJ increasing traffic to their site since this is such an inclusive and positive space

wow. I have never done this, because not only would the stress kill me, but I have three former managers who would give me fantastic references without anyone having to lie. Unless you’ve worked in some godawful company, why would you give false references to your prospective employer?!

No kidding, @Morgan et al, some of those questions made me want to barf!

I’ve been asked for references for minimum wage jobs. That’s absurd. Make up whatever you want.